Tuesday, April 21, 2015

[AvC] Re: Atheism vs Theism, or (T vs A, (whichever))

On Tuesday, April 21, 2015 at 12:52:57 AM UTC-4, GT wrote:
On Monday, April 20, 2015 at 9:15:30 PM UTC+10, ravn wrote:
On Saturday, April 18, 2015 at 1:18:22 AM UTC-7, lawrey wrote:

                        GT,
                                  When are you going to appreciate that according to theism there are alleged to be some 3000 gods abroad on earth.

Theism doesn't just present one god vs. many, but many ways of believing in one or many gods. GT presents just one particular god and one particular way of believing in that god  and then assumes it's the only representative one in spite of all the evidence to the contrary. If he doesn't acknowledge the diversity of theism regardless of what he personally believes for himself, whatever he may call it,   then he needs to consider his own issues with dishonesty instead of accusing everyone else.  

There can be as many (or more) deities than there are cultures. But there can only be one God.

According to Athanasian trinitarianism, 3 persons, all of them being God, can coexist. As per this, 3000 persons, all of them being God, should in principle be able to coexist.
According to Christian dualism. God coexists with Satan and numerous (other?) angels and demons. As per this, it should be conceivable that God 1 and God 2 can coexist and by induction, that God 1 thru God 3000 can coexist.
According to a recently (or still) dominant school of Christian soteriology, God paid a ransom to rescue man. To whom? In principle, it could be to other Gods who had different plans for man.

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[AvC] Re: Atheism vs Theism, or (T vs A, (whichever))



On Tuesday, 21 April 2015 05:52:57 UTC+1, GT wrote:


On Monday, April 20, 2015 at 9:15:30 PM UTC+10, ravn wrote:


On Saturday, April 18, 2015 at 1:18:22 AM UTC-7, lawrey wrote:

                        GT,
                                  When are you going to appreciate that according to theism there are alleged to be some 3000 gods abroad on earth.

Theism doesn't just present one god vs. many, but many ways of believing in one or many gods. GT presents just one particular god and one particular way of believing in that god  and then assumes it's the only representative one in spite of all the evidence to the contrary. If he doesn't acknowledge the diversity of theism regardless of what he personally believes for himself, whatever he may call it,   then he needs to consider his own issues with dishonesty instead of accusing everyone else.  

There can be as many (or more) deities than there are cultures. But there can only be one God. .


                                       GT,
                                                     That statement needs to be clarified, since as it stands it is a false statement and not shown to be true.

                                                       Question
: What god would you be referring to,and what evidence can you produce to demonstrate there is such a thing?






 

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[AvC] Re: Religion-Vs-Honesty, Integrity & Truth



On Monday, 20 April 2015 17:48:24 UTC+1, Cathaholic wrote:


On Tuesday, 24 February 2015 22:54:57 UTC, GT wrote:


On Monday, February 23, 2015 at 10:17:42 PM UTC+11, lawrey wrote:


On Monday, 23 February 2015 09:46:33 UTC, GT wrote:


On Saturday, February 21, 2015 at 12:05:56 PM UTC+11, Timbo wrote:


On Wednesday, February 11, 2015 at 10:04:47 PM UTC-5, GT wrote:


On Friday, July 4, 2014 at 11:54:17 AM UTC+10, lawrey wrote:


             How is any religion today able to justify its existence with honour and integrity, and where does honesty come into any of their many utterances and writing

             including the scriptures of the OT and NT?


How could many branches of science today be able to justify their existence when science itself has it origins thousands of years back.

 

             Since as long ago as the 5th century B.C., in ancient Greece, criticism of religion has abounded and steadily increased generation upon generation, until

           

...Christianity is humanity's last remaining hope.

So why attack it ? 



                                      To say that Atheism is attacking  christianity in any way, is a gross and overly emotional exaggeration of the truth.
                                      The simple facts are these: Christianity is based upon ancient and traditional superstitious false beliefs, which
                                      Individual christians choose to believe; that is to say they believe in god/s. Atheists do not believe in god/s because
                                      there is no evidence to corroborate the existence of gods. and no gods have ever been known to exist. All Atheists
                                      do is disagree;  and reject christian attempts to promulgate false beliefs. HOW CAN THAT BE SAID TO BE ATTACKING ANYONE?
                                      BY SO-SAYING YOU ARE QUITE DELIBERATELY CREATING HYSTERIA  and crying foul where none-such exists.

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Monday, April 20, 2015

[AvC] Re: North Carolina ignorance



On Tuesday, April 21, 2015 at 5:35:43 AM UTC+10, LL wrote:

A North Carolina bill introduced this month would prevent state medical school departments from allowing employees to perform abortions or to "supervise the performance of an abortion". Essentially, the bill's sponsors and supporters wants to make teaching how to perform an abortion – a safe, legal and necessary medical procedure – illegal. As The New Republic's Jamil Smith wrote, if passed, the bill would "produce less intelligent doctors."

Less competent ones, too. But maybe that's what North Carolina deserves.


http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/apr/20/republicans-ban-teaching-medical-students-abortion?CMP=ema_565u

What the morons in North Carolina fail to grasp is that a simple D&C, which has nothing to do with abortion but can save a woman's life, is the same procedure used in abortions. So either they prevent doctors from being able to save women's lives by learning how to do a D&C or they teach them, by extension, how to do an abortion.  Is there a legislature as ignorant as this anywhere in the world? I hope not.

L


Or it might be that that taking of a life by whatever means would one day prejudice their taking of the Hippocratic Oath.

We should be grateful for to these kinds of people that doctors don't routinely euthanize their patients (as a form of pain relief) on a daily basis. Which is of course the kind of treatment that the Liberals would like to dispense as a way of soothing their own bleeding hearts. That's right, put them down rather than lobby for the use of God given compounds such as heroin to be made available as as pain killers.

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[AvC] Re: Atheism vs Theism, or (T vs A, (whichever))



On Monday, April 20, 2015 at 9:15:30 PM UTC+10, ravn wrote:


On Saturday, April 18, 2015 at 1:18:22 AM UTC-7, lawrey wrote:

                        GT,
                                  When are you going to appreciate that according to theism there are alleged to be some 3000 gods abroad on earth.

Theism doesn't just present one god vs. many, but many ways of believing in one or many gods. GT presents just one particular god and one particular way of believing in that god  and then assumes it's the only representative one in spite of all the evidence to the contrary. If he doesn't acknowledge the diversity of theism regardless of what he personally believes for himself, whatever he may call it,   then he needs to consider his own issues with dishonesty instead of accusing everyone else.  



There can only actually be the one God (it's a logical argument, so naturally atheists can't follow it). But there can be as many deities as there are cultures. 






 

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[AvC] Re: Atheism vs Theism, or (T vs A, (whichever))



On Monday, April 20, 2015 at 9:15:30 PM UTC+10, ravn wrote:


On Friday, April 17, 2015 at 8:09:40 PM UTC-7, GT wrote:

There need be only the one theistic view point stupid.

Which one? Monotheism? Polytheism? Pantheism? Panentheism?  Henotheism?  Kathenotheism?  Monolatrism?  Deism? Pandeism?  Polydeism?  Authotheism? Eutheism? Dystheism? Misotheism? If you think one particular brand of monotheism is a foregone conclusion and that everybody else is dishonest if they don't hold that position, that's a vulgar and pernicious approach to things. It doesn't make any difference if you're not religious (so you claim) and not a Christian.


It 'need' only be one is what I'd said. Besides what do these different classifications have to do with anything. In context theism is either the belief in a god or gods. And as there is hardly anyone here who believes in more than one god, then it means the belief in one God only. And "everybody else"? There can only be the two positions that are valid as beliefs in a creative force. They are Naturalism & Theism. Atheism is a non-belief, so it's not valid. We all must believe. And, vulgar and pernicious? That's coming from someone who is here to attack those they perceive as being vulnerable if not defenseless. And I've been claiming that I'm not religious from near my first day here. My 'GT' stands for God Theory for example. So what would you know you arrogant piece of crap. 
 





 
And there 'should' also be only one atheistic viewpoint stupid.

There's different kinds of atheism,  just like there's different kinds of theism. Positive atheism is a position that no deities exist. Negative atheism is a position of disbelief in deities but not an explicit assertion that no deities exist.


Just like there's different kinds of vegetarianism. Yeah right!  And no one can assert there is no God, as there is no high ground that can exist to allow that kind of judgement to be passed. Even Stephen Hawkins can't say there is no God, and that's for the simple reason he can't claim that the universe is a natural place. He does not know what brought it into existence.

 






 
 


Women are a product of a society. If they are to choose self determination, then they are also choosing not to be a part of that society, the one that brought them into existence. In other words they should go and live on an island if they choose not to respect society wishes. Otherwise they are not entitled to the benefits a society brings. But the reality is that feminism is creating a selfish monster, one that wants both roles, the mother and the breadwinner.


Society is made up of people. So, how can you say women exercising their self-determination is them not respecting what society wishes when they are a part of society you deem as an aggregate wishes for things? Who or what is doing all the wishing here that doesn't include women? 


Self-determination is as the term suggests a tangent that would need to be taken. "Women" would be needing to leave society as they would have no right to tear it apart themselves.  But men and women are the two sides of the same coin. Any talk of one making a determination of any-kind should involve the other. Besides it's feminism that's determining this outcome. It's them and people like yourself that are actually the ones taking the patriarchal approach. You believe in your minds that women are too stupid to decide anything for themselves. And then you perpetuate the myth of male domination. You are too naive to see that feminism is an ideology whose aim is to turn men and women into adversaries. A divide and conquer strategy, one that's ultimate goal is the elimination of all males.







 

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Re: [AvC] Re: Why Christians can't join in the celebration of rebellion.








On Apr 20, 2015, at 2:45 PM, "'yarrido@aol.com' via Atheism vs Christianity"<atheism-vs-christianity@googlegroups.com> wrote:



On Monday, April 20, 2015 at 3:07:12 PM UTC-4, LL wrote:
The point is nobody should have to look for another baker. I can't imagine anyone would want a cake from a bigot,


You appear to have an extremely short memory LL, you have already conceded that bigotry is not involved in this, now you are contradicting yourself.

I never said bigotry was not involved. Where did you get that idea? It IS bigotry, plain and simple. 
 
but the principle is that the baker is supposed to serve everyone equally, by law. 

I am willing to compromise a little. Bakers and florists can be bigots, but should be required to post large prominent signs saying, "WE ARE A BIGOTED BUSINESS. WE REFUSE TO SERVE THE FOLLOWING:

And they should have a restricted business license.  A "B" license, B for Bigotry. 

Lois

Lois






On Apr 20, 2015, at 10:39 AM, "'Dingbat' via Atheism vs Christianity"<atheism-vs-christianity@googlegroups.com> wrote:

On Monday, April 20, 2015 at 1:24:46 PM UTC-4, yar...@aol.com wrote:
On Sunday, April 19, 2015 at 9:45:29 AM UTC-4, Bob T. wrote:
On Saturday, April 18, 2015 at 9:41:06 AM UTC-7, Alan Wostenberg wrote:
"Despite their profession of love for all humanity, some Christians ..." Bob its easy to love humanity. Hitler slaughtered individual Jews by the millions out of his love for Humanity.  The commandment is not "love humanity". It's "love my neighbor". And who is my neighbor?


Everyone. 

 That person walking into my shop.. asking me to cooperate in a ceremony that is by my lights counterfeit..It is no act of love for me to cooperate in my neighbor's caper; nor is love for for my neighbor to coerce me in the deed. What does love look like in this situation, Bob?
 

Love, in this situation, calls for baking the damn cake.

No Bob. Love calls for the gay couple to find another baker that does not have moral qualms.

They could seek another baker. They might or might not find one.
 
There are plenty around...bakeries all over the place...pick one...instead of picking a fight.

Suppose a black - white gay couple Adam and Steve in rural Mississippi want a cake with the inscription, "Happy Silver Jubilee, Adam and Steve!" If the bakers in their town and surrounding towns are unwilling to make such a cake, what should they do next?
 
That is what an expression of love looks like. I thought that gays were loving enough to extend that much charity...or are you claiming that they are not capable of this kind of love?

- Bob T 

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